Bloom Energy and the "Bloom Box" - CBS 60 Minutes coverage

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I just watched a segment on CBS 60 Minutes about the “Bloom Box”, made by Bloom Energy, and promoted prior to the segment as a box that “creates” electricity. As I normally do with mass market news stories covering a technical topic, I had some problems with the presentation. The Bloom Box Creator shows the 60 minutes correspondent how he creates this “magic box” from ordinary beach sand, and a “special paint”. He then holds up a small 6” cube and says it can create enough power for an American Home. The whole segment smacked of “snake oil”. Not a normal product for 60 minutes, whom are usually busy uncovering Snake Oil.

The “Bloom Box” ends up being a fuel cell. Apparently a Solid Oxide Fuel Cell. The “beach sand” was used to make the ceramic substrate or electrolyte. The special paints are proprietary secrets, and used to make the anode and cathode. None of this is new, or revolutionary. When an actual “Bloom Box” was revealed, we find that small 6” cube is surrounded by a complex maze of support equipment and piping, in a much bigger container.

The segment did not dwell on, and barely mentioned, the fuel that was necessary to run this fuel cell. The fuel ends up being Natural Gas, or Biogas. Yes, once again, no free energy, and no magic. We put a fuel source in, and get electricity out.

What is missing is all the details. In every fuel cell I am aware of using natural gas or Biogas – methane – the methane still has to be reformed (in a process similar to Steam Methane reforming) in order to separate the hydrogen in the fuel. That hydrogen then has to be carefully filtered and purified, as fuel cells do not tolerate contaminants very well. The resulting Hydrogen is then sent to the fuel cell, where along with atmospheric oxygen, electricity is produced. The process still releases all the carbon inherent in the fuel, the same as burning it. A fuel cell will, however, be far more efficient than a heat engine at recovering the energy of the fuel.

A Solid Oxide Fuel cell also produces a large amount of heat, as they run a temperature approaching 1000 deg C. This heat can hinder reliability – as was alluded to in the segment. It can also be used to provide additional heat for, say, space heating.

The Bloom Box apparently has some high profile installations, with Ebay and Google data centers among them.  Perhaps Bloom Energy has achieved some breakthrough in either the cost, or the efficiency of fuel cells. These would both be good things. The extreme cost of today’s fuel cell technology is one major thing that is keeping them out of mainstream use. The ability to convert Biogas from waste water treatment plants, or landfills into electricity is very promising, as is evidenced by the large number of companies working on fuel cells for that purpose. Although none of this would put much of a dent in America’s energy usage, the potential for rural areas, and third world use is large.

I wish Bloom Energy Well. They are to be watched. Bloom Energy reports they are going public the first of the week. I’ll be waiting! I hope they have managed to address the high cost of fuel cells, and reduce that cost to more manageable levels. This would be a significant contribution to our (and the worlds) energy picture. However, I do wish we could leave the spin, snake oil, and promises of free energy out of the rhetoric.

Here is the 60 Minutes article
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/18/60minutes/main6221135.shtml

The company Website.
http://www.bloomenergy.com/

More:
http://www.nowpublic.com/environment/bloombox-energy-kr-sridhar-bloom-energy-fuel-cells-2580564.html

Other The Energy Blog posts on the Bloom Box:

Bloom energy server revealed

Bloom energy possible progress or hyperbole or both

Comments

[Andrew Weber - Magnet Generator DIY]

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[Matthew]

Great article man, thanks for sharing your thoughts on the news segment, I really don't even trust anything I EVER see on the news. However there is one free energy source that has really intrigued me lately... Magnetic motors. I came across some really weird but cool YouTube videos the other day and I couldn't help but be fascinated by them. I would love to hear your thoughts on them. You can get more info on my blog... http://MagnetFreeEnergy.com

[Mahesh]

I'm looking to buy a car here and was doing the resecrah. The Cost to Own of Hybrids was consistently more than similar (or same) model non-Hybrids. The only advantages Hybrids have is with the fuel costs over the life of the car, and the Hybrid tax credit. But, they're at a disadvantage with almost everything else. And, they're killed by the depreciation, due it seems to the high invoice price. (O.K. I think I just unintentionally made a really good argument for buying Hybrids Used.)But, just to compare the two cars I'm liking, the Honda Civic super-basic trim has a CtO of $24,200 and the Honda Civic Hybrid $26,900. And, the Civic Hybrid is actually way more affordable and closer to the CtO of its non-Hybrid sister model than the other Hybrids I've been looking at.Here's what I'm thinking. The projected Cost to Own is based on a few guesses, like how much mileage you're likely to have, and the price of gas pretty much staying where it is.Now I don't want to read doomsday predictions about how we're going to go all Mad Max. I don't. But, it's natural to suppose the trend of gas prices going up is going to continue.I mean the reason it happened in the first place is because people in developing countries have been buying cars, so the demand for gas has gone up. These countries aren't done developing. Or, to put it another way, there's alot of people in the world who haven't bought a car yet.Back to the Civic I figure with the differences in CtOs not including the cost of gas ($4,300), the cost of gas would pretty much have to double ($4,300/($8,600-$6,200)=~1.8). And, that's pretty much just for the Honda Civic. I'm having a real hard time imagining a horrible nightmare scenario where the Ford Fusion Hybrid New would be a better buy than the Ford Fusion New.I guess I've pretty much already answered my own question. But, I have another scenario for all of you. If someone starts mass producing Hydrogen Fuel Cell cars for mass sales, what's that going to do to the price of gas? I'd expect it to go down partly because the demand for gas would be stemmed somewhat, but mostly just because the gas companies would want to incentivise their consumers keeping combustion cars.I guess the big question there is, how likely is that to happen in the next 5 years? Or however long? Isn't it odd how these alternative cars have the potential to sabotage each other?And, how competitive is hydrogen with gas as a fuel? Obviously, there's the old issue that hydrogen would have to build their distribution from the ground up. But, once that's done, how much would a mile fueled by gas cost vs. a mile fueled by hydrogen?Gas comes out of the ground with it's energy already in it. Petroleum pumps try to be (and are) highly energy efficient. But, pumping a liquid out of minerals Well, isn't that like squeezing blood from a stone?Hydrogen you have to use up energy to electrolyze it or refine it from fossil fuels. I'm not bothered so much by the greenhouse implications. From an engineering standpoint it's an energy storage device. What's the cost? Electricity is cheap. Right?Then there's the comparative fuel economies of fuel cell and combustion cars. Hydrogen is more energy intensive than gas. A full tank is lighter. The lightening of the cars load would give it a slight advantage in fuel economy. Wouldn't it? (Get the image of hydrogen making balloon floaty cars out of your head please. It so doesn't work that way.) Also, since the internal drag is on a much shorter drive train, wouldn't that give Hydrogen Fuel Cell cars a tremendous advantage in fuel economy?So an swers, are you saying that if I asked these other questions separately you WOULD answer them? Besides I'm dubious of that on it's own, it kind of sounds like Y!A points farming to me, at a cost to me!Beyond that it's occurred to me you don't have to double the price of gas. For vocations that involve alot of driving you could easily more than double the mileage and the fuel consumption. Like I imagine Taxi companies, if they're not using Hybrids are pretty much losing money.From the National Hydrogen Association: The estimated costs for producing and delivering hydrogen to thefueling station using today’s technologies vary from $2.10/gallon of gasoline equivalent (gge) to $9.10/gge. These hydrogen costs do not include highway taxes and do include the increased fuel efficiency of fuel cell vehicles compared to gasoline-powered hybrid electric vehicles. So best case scenario hydrogen is just competitive with gas.An swers, sorry you did write that mileage can make a Hybrid worthwhile first. But, I still don't like the other thing you wrote, if only because that means flooding the latest question pages with spam questions. There's enough inane crap on here as it is.On the other side of things, saying hydrogen as a fuel isn't going to happen in a big way tomorrow is not the same as saying it's never going to happen. The price of gas will go up, not least of all because people consider it to be an essential consumable. People don't just use less simply because demand outstrips supply, so the price has to go way up to be prohibitive. Next we'd need to see a big drop in the price of electricity. Maybe when they mine the moon for tritium for fusion power, though the new fusion powerplants and the power infrastructure will still cost money on top of the price tag of a commercial lunar space program. I think the big energy conglomerates like GE can afford to do it easy. But I've never been a big fan of electric cars. I don't think the oil companies are trying to keep them buried because they threaten their monopoly. I just don't think they've ever really been any good. Granted tremendous advances in battery technology have given them a huge step forward. But, even with that and regenerative braking (an old technology which has gained new interest) electric cars' ranges just aren't very good. I know that sound like a strawman attack, like the old one that electric cars can't make it up hills. But, it's true. At the least, going on a roadtrip in an electric car is out of the question. It doesn't help there the batteries are pretty dang heavy. But again the weight is less important than internal drag on the drive train, as well as regenerative braking. (Batteries are also expensive, but not more so than engine blocks and full drive trains, and definitely not more than hydrogen tanks and fuel cells.)

[Datul]

Here is my persuasive essay on why we sluohd start adopting the ideas and uses of electric cars. Tell em what you think. Sorry it long but hey, i feel like i did good. If there are any questions or mis understandings, just tell me. ThanksEssay:If you could drive on the power of the sun, would you? Would you only pay two cents per mile? And would you help the environment for the future to come? I would, and so would you! All of these questions are answered with the electric car. Nearly every household in America owns one car that runs on gasoline and pollutes the atmosphere. We, need to start adopting the ideas and uses of electric cars into our lives; which is to change your gasoline guzzler into a clean, green, electrifying machine! Nissan with the Leaf and Chevy with the Volt are just two E.V.’s to be manufactured for the U.S. in 2010. With groups like “Plug in America” and documentaries such as “Who Killed the Electric Car?”, activists are taking a stand for what’s right! Us American love oil, but with our solar cell technology, we can change our dirty habits and make the switch to green and clean electric vehicles that run on renewable energy!Electric Vehicles stretch the boundaries of how inexpensive transportation can be. These alternatives are cheaper to keep running when compared to the common gasoline powered cars. For example, when an electric car is up against a 20mpg gas car with gasoline costing $3 per gallon, you spend $0.15 for every mile that you drive. On the other hand, with electricity being the alternative fuel, we pay in kilowatt hours, which would total to about two cents per mile. Over the long run, this is a he amount of savings. Electric cars are cheaper to fuel, but they are also cheaper to maintain. E.V.’s only have one moving part, the motor. No transmissions, gears, sparks or explosions are taking place “under the hood”. No lubricant is needed, so no oil spills to clean up! This would then mean that it does not have to be taken to the shop as much because almost nothing needs to be changed! These cars are much cheaper to maintain than gasoline cars and stay much cleaner! Although electric cars are more expensive to buy from a dealership, they outperform regular petrol cars. They age much slower, and the cars motor never dies because of the so little moving parts inside. But eventually after a decade, your lithium ion batteries start to drain out and lose charge. But instead of buying a new car every couple of years, you just replace the batteries, and they are much cheaper than a new car. Currently, when you purchase a zero emission car in the United States, which E.V.’s are, you can receive up to a $7,500 rebate from the government! In the long run, with the amount of money that you save on the cost or operation and maintenance for E.V.’s, you would save enough money to pay for the car its self! And the best part is, it’s not science fiction, we have the electric alternative technology here today!We have to go electric, it’s the easiest and most reliable way of alternative transportation. Other options include ethanol, biodiesel, and the most popular, Hydrogen. Yes, these are great way, but they are not readily available to us, unlike electricity. Also, it would cost way more to install hydrogen fueling stations and biodiesel pumps around America instead of electrical outlets. When compared to the most popular other option, hydrogen fuel cells, electric cars win by a long shot, the average hydrogen fuel cell car costs about one million dollars and the technology is just not there yet. We’ve mastered the electric vehicle with over 300 miles to a charge and speed over 100mph, and we sluohd start using it! We need an alternative, and electric is clearly the matter of choice to reduce our dependence on both foreign and domestic oil. As President George W. Bush stated, “America is addicted to oil,” and we need to get rid of our nasty habits. We can start by changing our cars and what they require to run on. Instead of gasoline, we can use electricity, stored in batteries. With battery technology booming, we can extend our ranges to a few hundred mile to a charge! Although the average American only drives about 90 miles per day. Electric cars are said to have a whopping fuel economy of 188 mpg, and are rated as one of the most efficient type of vehicles on the road. They do not waste power when your car is not moving or stuck at a red light , unlike gasoline cars that constantly burn gas. They are only operated when necessary, which saves you power and money! Some have realized the benefits of E.V.’s and how huge they are! Such as in Israel, where they are taking on project “Better Place”, and within a decade, all cars on the Israeli roads will run on electricity, produced from clean and green renewable energy sources!“The Environmental benefits of E.V.’s are dubious,” stated a California Newspaper in 2003 when GM was about to end their line for the all electric EV1

[Poth]

Free Energy is real but the coverup is sonrtg, if you are interested in a REAL free energy machine then just search for the LT MAGNET MOTOR in the youtube video search , it is probably the ONLY working magnet motor out there. Join the free energy revolution!!